2002 Kinetico 4040s - issue?

[Andy CWS]

It is very possible the resin screen(s) in the softener are broken or the rise tube is cracked--even just a little will let some resin to come through. These screens are even finer than standard softeners' because the quad uses a fine mesh resin. This is a used unit and it needs attention, READ: rebuild. Or at least inspected. Be careful doing it yourself as these beds are packed and when you take the valve off, resin pours out the top even if it has been depressurized. So work in a place where the resins can be contained, a very large plastic tub.

Since this is on a trial basis, let them do it. Boy, I don't understand the $2500.00 charge for a water sample. Is that EPA?

Andy Christensen

[hanford homer2]

Absolutely will not do it myself. We just want our ducks to be in a row when we show him the grey filters as well as the dried, dark resin we have retrieved. Just want to convince ourselves that the first "after" filter is doing its job. Catching the resin after it escapes. If the 2nd filter remains white and no carbon/resin traces, then it will tell me the filter is small enough to catch that stuff and we will definitely consider putting one on the discharge of the unit if we decide to buy a Kinetico unit. And one would think for $2500 they would include a report that he has small amounts of escaped Resin in the water as well.

[Andy CWS]

I think you are approaching this correctly. Unfortunately, the unit provided for you has some problems and they seem to be internal. it is a good system but must in one piece and set up properly. Send me an email and I can send you some data.
[email protected]
Please put Kinetico in the title.

[pawaterguy]

It sounds like he knowingly or unknowingly unloading his problem on whoever is willing to take this thing off of his hands. I would run the other way. I know the 2040's are such that you can't replace the distributor tubes...you have to replace the whole tank (I think I mentioned it earlier)...and I think the 4040 is the same way so there is no real "cost effective" way to rebed and replace the distributors. Especially on a unit that is out of warranty. I'm sure Andy will steer you in the right direction, though. He knows his stuff. I am also stumped as to his fee for testing. Sounds like he's testing per his regulations as a bottler...not all of which pertains to you as a residential user.

[hanford homer]

that's correct, pa. He just told us it costs him $2500 to make sure the bottled water he sells is primo. So, he was reluctant to be able to tell us of what all was in our water or from our other house other than it is soft and it has no chlorine. But remember we aren't buying this unit. Just renting. I wouldn't buy this unit on a bet. In 2 days have enough resin now collected in this filter to cover a dime. Have about one more card to play before I tell him to go pound sand.

[hanford homer2]

Well, a few days ago my dealer was trying to get my issue cleared up so he offered to send over a couple of techs. He said they may not be able to figure out what the problem is. There was a scheduling conflict for me being there when they are there, etc. Fionally he asked me if we could just keep it between him and me, even though it will be 3 weeks before the 2 of us can meet. I said I would be willing to work with him on that so we have an appontment in 3 weeks. He is on vacation then I am on vacation, etc.
As of this writing, we still are getting enough black powdery material past the unit that is lodging in the bottom of the first afterfilter. Enough now to cover 2 dimes. Dealer said he has never seen what I am describing??) the 2nd afterfilter is also gray (not as but definitely compared to the filter coming into the house). Haven't noticed there being any blackish material on the bottom of this filter. I am thinking at this point that we are either getting crap out of the discharge of this unit that has been building up for some time now (we don't have any clue as to whose or what kind of supply water has been in this rental unit before now) or maybe the carbon bed has gone completely haywire (has been 10 years now and the salesman told me initially it was good for about 10 years???) My dealer is now telling me maybe he might have to take the unit out and do something to it (duh???) . My observation is that I believe no matter what model of NEW Kinetico they put into our house if we decide to purchase new, it should leave a white afterfilter perfectly intact for a good number of years, is that correct? Is that too much to assume or expect? Big question now is, "is the discharge of carbon powder (if that is what it is) create a resperatory hazard or skin hazard of some sort as we are breathing the mist and getting the water all over us in the shower? Also, he mentioned that his unit has confirmed that we now have soft water.....however, we have a brand new hot water tank as of a week ago. The water in the cold line is perfectly soft but the water coming out of the hot water tank has about a grain or so of hardness. What is in the tank that this happens? I have heard before that is normal but why does soft water go into the tank and comes out less than soft.? I know, lots of questions but am getting a bit frustrated but not willing to throw in the towel just yet? msp

[pawaterguy]

Sometimes it's as easy as the deposits in the pipes themselves attributing to the 1 grain hardness on the hot side. It may take years for that to go away completely. The carbon in the filter issue...it takes a little while for the black issue to slow down on a new unit. Kinetico has helped the problem by using an acid washed carbon now that gives off less of the fine stuff...but it will still grey the filter up a bit for a little while. As a general rule I always tell people that for the first year they'll be changing the filter more often than they will in years to come...with more time passing between each change until you settle into the routine that will fall into place eventually. But, if it's enough to actually accumulate on the bottom of the housing then there's a larger issue at hand. The distributor tube would be my first point of interest to make sure it's intact.

[Andy CWS]

The carbon will cause no known health issues. It is strange that the carbon is finding its way through the very tightly packed fine mesh resin bed as the resins should act a 5-10 micron filtration. Unless, it is plumbed in backwards or the tank medias are reversed. And NO you should not see any residue after the softener.

[hanford homer]

Well, I was calling it resin and he said it sounded like carbon instead. he said the resin is tiny beads that appear a bronze color or so. I said this is more like a fine fine powder (when dried) and is most certainly black. But it is heavy enough that it stays in one place right at the bottom of the filter rather than getting imbedded into the sides of the filter. I might add that they didn't give me any after filter at all. Only filter they supplied me with is the clear yellow casing string wound filter that protects their unit from things that enter my house. No concern about what leaves their unit and into my tank heater, etc. As far as the pipes themselves contributing to the hardness, I test my water about 10 feet from the water heater (for the hot side), 1/2" copper pipes that had city water (not soft) water in them for the first 5 years but soft for the last 2-1/2. It was a new house and the insides of the pipes appear pretty good shape.

[hanford homer]

As of today I am amending my opinion of what I think the material is that has been being trapped in the filter directly after their unit. It is about 60 to 70% bronze/copper colored and the balance thoroughly mix of dark gray/black. Consistent size/shape and now I am convinced it is the resin from the unit rather than carbon. As of today I can easily cover 3 to 4 dimes with what is trapped on the base of the clear filter casing. Now what is your assessment of what I have going on and what do you think the remedy is? thanks for your continued efforts to help people. msp

[Andy CWS]

It sounds like the upper basket that prevents resin from getting through may have a small crack in it...or the riser tube may also be cracked. Not enough to get gushers but enough to let small amounts accumulate over a short period of time.

Disassembly of tanks would be required. There is really no other way this could be happening to the best of my knowledge except that an o-ring within the valve or remote bodies where the rise tubes are affixed is missing or severely worn (very unusual unless someone took it out). Removing the riser tubes and sticking your finger up there, you should be able to feel it.

Andy Christensen

[hanford homer]

well we will see on Friday when we confront the evidence. Now, for another topic, where do i ask a question about what that pink, slimy stuff is inside the toilet bowl (not the tank but the bowl, just from the water line down). As well as the white carpet outside the shower and along the bottom inside of the shower as well. Wipes and rinses right off but comes back within a week or 2. Is this something the softener should be filtering out? Does anybody know what this is and how to combat it?? thanks for directing my question to the right location.......msp.

[pawaterguy]

Usually, the pink stuff is an airborne bacteria. Harmless.

[hanford homer]

Well, this morning was crunch time. We showed the owner of the unit what we have captured in the filter for the last 5 weeks. He said he didn't know what it was. He said it is super smaller than the carbon granules (he showed us a sample of the carbon) and that the resin is even larger than the carbon (didn't have a sample of resin but said it is similar to bb's and that gave me a graphic picture I could deal with and accept) He said what we have is neither but he took the filter and a sample of what we have captured back to his people and will find out what it is. In the meantime, his plan is to call us the first of the week when his people get back and arrange to have a brand new unit installed in our home next week. Am able to enclose a few pictures of what we captured as well as the filters themselves?? How do I do this?? Maybe someone can make some sense of this here as well as tell us what it is we have. Not sure we will truly hear what we have back from them.

[Andy CWS]

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